016: A Caretaker's Guide to Self-Care

Announcer

Welcome to the Ashes to Wings podcast where we tell stories of overcomers, and give you tips and tricks to living a fuller, more embodied life. Here's your host, Jenni O'Connor.

Jenni O’Connor

Hey friends, welcome to Ashes to Wings. Today we'll be talking with Marissa McCallam, who is a body and mindset coach, writer, and founder of the social enterprise Centre Myself. She believes that by connecting with our bodies and using simple tools to change our mindset, it is possible to lead a consistently calmer and happier life... a philosophy that helped her overcome 15 years of depression and anxiety. Marissa, thank you for joining us today. 

Marissa McCallam

Thank you so much for having me Jenni. I'm excited!

Jenni O’Connor

Me too! So Marissa, one thing I've learned that we have in common is that we're both oldest daughters. And it's common for oldest daughters, especially those of us who have parents with medical issues or mental health issues, to sort of take on the role of caregiver in the family. Does that resonate for you?

Marissa McCallam

It definitely does. Yeah, being the eldest, has a lot of responsibility. I think some of it's assumed. I think we assume a lot of responsibility. But there is almost like an expectation sometimes that as the eldest, you need to step in as an additional parent and an additional caregiver,.

Jenni O’Connor

What was the hardest part about being a caregiver for others even when you were young?

Marissa McCallam

I think it's that you feel like you need to grow up quickly. You feel like you need to be the adult. You don't... you don't realize it at the time, but I think a lot of childhood can be lost when you step in as a caregiver. That sense of responsibility... that responsibility for others so that they're free. And the easiness that you should have as a kid, that time to explore, that time to be creative, and that time to make mistakes... that can kind of get missed a little bit if you immediately have to step into the role of adult, or additional parent.

Jenni O’Connor

As you did move into adulthood, did that affect your romantic relationships?

Marissa McCallam

Definitely. I think there was an element of feeling like you need to provide all of the time. That you need to nurture, that you need to support. And even when the person isn't asking for it, you're stepping in and playing the role of mother to the point where you get accused of, you know, mothering somebody. [both laugh] Which is fine, which is fine. But when it turns into a situation where you just assume the role of mother and then you forget that you are all of these other identities, it can kind of shift the balance in relationships and you have a tendency to over-give.

Jenni O’Connor

So how did it feel when you were able to sort of set aside the role of caregiver in a relationship?

Marissa McCallam

It's difficult. It was difficult and it's something that I have to work on daily. [both laugh] It's in my nature to want to nurture and mother people. But once I did learn what I was doing, I recognized that and became aware of it, there was an element of freedom that came with it. There was also a period of trying to work out who I was when I wasn't mothering somebody, when I wasn't caring for somebody else. And that was a little bit scary. But once I got into, you know, working on that part of me, it made me realize that there is a lot more to life than just being there for other people. Which can sound selfish, but it's actually essential to just actually enjoying life and making the most of who you are. 

Jenni O’Connor

Absolutely, yeah. I can imagine it's scary when it's something that's such a huge part of your identity. To start stepping away from that and rewriting who you are as a person. And another thing that we have in common is we both have battled anxiety and depression. So tell us more about your part of that journey.

Marissa McCallam

That took me by surprise, that element of my journey. It happened when I moved away to university, so I was like 19. It was the first time I'd been away from home. So there's all this freedom, I was living the life, you know. It's a new identity, it's like this new person. And then within my first year of university, I remember I went back home for Christmas and I realized that nothing had changed. And I think something in me just broke. I felt that sense of responsibility, again. I felt a bit unsettled. And then there was just, it's almost like this low-brimmed hat came down, down, over my eyes. Everything felt really dark and really heavy, and I just shifted into this period of depression and immense sadness. And, and that sort of lingered with me for years and years. And as a caregiver, as a nurturer, I felt responsible to keep showing up for other people, but I wasn't caring for myself during that time. Which I thin, prolonged me having that period of depression and anxiety around it. 

Jenni O’Connor

Giving to others out of your tank without refilling your tank?

Marissa McCallam

Absolutely, absolutely. I felt drained consistently through that... that period of my time because I still felt like I needed to show up for other people. And any thought of looking after myself felt selfish, and I felt like I didn't deserve it, so I was just kind of ignoring that part of me.

Jenni O’Connor

And do you feel that that's what led to you working with your body?

Marissa McCallam

Yes, I think that reconnection with my body was the one thing that brought me out of my depression. So in my mid 20s I started dancing. I joined a local dance crew. I realized that when I was dancing and listening to music, and just getting out of my own head, that's when I was happiest. And it created these periods where I wasn't depressed. And so those periods were able to extend a bit, and obviously the endorphins and everything surrounded with dancing really helped to lift my spirit. And so by having that connection with my body, I was able to get out of my head and feel better more consistently. And I could see little gaps and moments of like, "Okay, so I don't have to be depressed all the time." There's actually an alternative. And then that led me to sort of after many, many years actually make the connection of, "Okay, my body's actually quite useful. I should probably connect with it. It's got so much wisdom and I've just been sort of dragging it around for these last few years. How about we form a different relationship and see what actually is going on?" As soon as I did that, life shifted. 

Jenni O’Connor

It's not just a brain taxi. [both laugh]

Marissa McCallam

Yes! 

Jenni O’Connor

Yeah, as a dancer myself I have such a fondness for that connection with dance and our emotions, and that's what led to me working with Somatics and working with my body, too. Because like you said, when you're in that space where you're just feeling the music, and you're so present and so mindful, you can let everything else go. It's such a powerful thing to be able to use dance to access your emotions, and to tap into a lighter side of yourself.

Marissa McCallam

Absolutely and, and all of the other elements that come with dance as well. So being part of the dance community. You know if you sweat together, you stay together. That used to be the slogan with the people that I danced with. You form this new family. You're working towards a common goal, so you're just shifting your focus a bit, giving you something else to look at and something else to enjoy. And that sense of achievement when you perform, or if you build a project together, is immense. And so all of these things were feeding into that positivity, and it was reaffirming the necessity to connect to my body.

Jenni O’Connor

Yeah the community is such a huge part of it. And especially if you're lucky enough, like we are, to be around people who are lifting each other up, and encouraging each other, and leading each other higher, instead of just that competitiveness and the cutting each other down. It absolutely, I feel, magnifies the magic of dance when you've got that community factor, too. When we spoke before you mentioned you had a breakup of a pretty long relationship. How did that affect how you saw yourself?

Marissa McCallam

I was in a relationship for 14 years, and that relationship started when I was 19. So it was all the way through my 20s. And so when I came out of it, I was like, "I don't even know who I am. I've always been part of a couple." And in that relationship, through my own fault, I was consistently giving, so I kind of lost who I was. And then when I came out of it I was just like, "Oh okay, so it's just me looking after myself, doing what I want to do now. I'm not sure what I... what happens next." There was an element of freedom, and I was proud of the fact that I made a very, very difficult decision, but I didn't know what I was supposed to do. And the thought of having to care for myself, and focus on myself felt a little bit uncomfortable, actually. So there was like a period of almost like a fallout from that relationship, in terms of not knowing what I was doing next and just having to take some time to rebuild myself, develop myself, and build up my sense of self, again,

Jenni O’Connor

So how did all of this lead to you coaching people?

Marissa McCallam

Such a good question. I ended up coaching people because I didn't want other people to feel or experience the level of self-doubt, the sense of self-disgust, that lack of self-worth that I had experienced. And I felt the need to share what I had learned so that something could come from what I'd experienced. And I found that. I mean, I've always loved connecting with people, that's kind of been the thing for me. But to be able to do that on a level where we could help them to work out what they want to do, go for things that they've been holding themselves back from... that felt so powerful to me and that led me into the coaching space. Really, really late on, later on, you know, in my life. But I think it all makes sense because I had so much life experience before then. It kind of all fed into the work that I was doing as a coach. And it all came together as, you know, me becoming a body and mindset coach, bringing together all of the experiences I've had previous to that.

Jenni O’Connor

How beautiful that you get to use the experiences that shaped you to help other people.

Marissa McCallam

Thank you.

Jenni O’Connor

And you've worked with teens too, yes?

Marissa McCallam

Yeah. And so, when I first decided to go into the coaching space, I wanted to set up a center for women, called Centre Myself. And I'd been to... on a trip to San Francisco, and my friend showed me the women's building there. And it was four floors of this building... it was dedicated to women reclaiming themselves, discovering themselves. They could go in and learn new languages, they could get stuff translated, they could attend classes, get help with finances. And I just wanted to bring the idea of this building to England where I live. But when I came back and started working on it, I realized that all of the programming, the negative programming that women experience, happens very early on. And I understood that I needed to work with women younger so that we could have more time to have more positive programming. So yeah I set up Centre Myself as a project where I used holistic approaches to increase confidence in teenage girls, and we did that for about two years.

Jenni O’Connor

That's amazing. It really is almost scary, especially as a mom to daughters, how early that messaging starts. And having worked with junior high cheerleading and being a coach for them, and they're already receiving these messages that their bodies are not enough, that their bodies are not perfect (whatever "perfect" is). And so I absolutely love that you were instrumental in helping these teens see themselves in a different way.

Marissa McCallam

And how did you find that cheerleading helped the girls that you were working with?

Jenni O’Connor

What I loved about it is... I worked my girls pretty hard. And if they're listening, they're probably saying, "Uh huh!" [both laugh] But they had to memorize anatomy. If we did drills, I would teach them as we would be doing our conditioning. You know, I'd say "Okay, which muscles is this working right now?" And it started to give them an appreciation for what their bodies could do instead of what they looked like. The first time that we were folded over doing a hamstring stretch, one of them said, "oh, you know, look... I have a fat roll!" And, you know, the... the mom in me was like, "Hold the phone. That's skin not fat, first of all. But even if it WAS fat..." And so we had this conversation about like, "Your bodies are changing. You're in junior high, you're getting ready to become a woman. It's perfectly normal for you to have fat, even though that's not fat." And then we talked about Photoshopping because I have a background in photography. And so I showed them, pre- and post- images of celebrities. Even the celebrities don't look like the celebrities. And so I said "Look at all of the amazing things that you can do with your body. You can lift somebody who weighs as much as you do up in the air... while smiling and keeping her safe!" And it was so amazing to see the light bulb go on in their eyes like, "Oh, yeah, my body is really amazing!"

Marissa McCallam

And those... those light bulb moments are a key. And that's what we saw when we ran Centre Myself. And again it's all about movement, so we ensured that every session started with some sort of movement because once you're in your body... like actually it is quite cool... "look at these things I could do!" And we did dance, we did Thai boxing, you know, really connecting with physicality and power, and stuff that's not associated with how you look or how other people are perceiving you. And then we sort of took it to the next level in terms of mindfulness and meditation. And again, like you said, we look to sort of... social media and all the photoshopping because there are so many messages out there that tell them that they're not worthy, that they're not good enough, and that they have to be perfect... whatever "perfect" may be in somebody else's eyes.

Jenni O’Connor

And it changes, there was the thigh gap phase, which unless your body is literally built a certain way you will never have a thigh gap, you know. And all of these strange tests and quizzes for "is your body this certain ideal?" And yeah, I love when we're able to help people find that their body is THEIR ideal. 

Jenni O’Connor

So if a book was written about your life, what would the title be?

Marissa McCallam

It's so funny you say that because I've actually written a book.

Jenni O’Connor

Ooh, what's it called, first of all?

Marissa McCallam

It's called Wishing Only Love... my book is called Wishing Only Love. I've not published it yet, and I wrote it a few years ago, because I feel like my story is still ongoing. So I've written like the first 30 years up. 

Jenni O’Connor

Only?

Marissa McCallam

Only... yeah it's fine, I'll released it when I'm 70. [both laugh] Yeah it would be called "Wishing Only Love," because that in itself is a mantra for me. It's three words I use to guide everything I do, because I like to keep stuff simple. So this is just three words that came to me a few years ago, and I was just like, "If I can stick to that as an intention, then I'm good to go. I can handle anything."

Jenni O’Connor

I love that because it's simple but it encompasses so much. Wishing love toward others, wishing love towards yourself... it's all-inclusive.

Marissa McCallam

I love all- inclusive. 

Jenni O’Connor

Vacations, mantras, the whole thing! 

Marissa McCallam

And some money.

Jenni O’Connor

So how can we make this world a better place while we're still working on ourselves?

Marissa McCallam

I think the key thing to making the world a better place whilst working on ourselves is to share the compassion that you have for others with yourself. Don't forget yourself in that equation. Because you can't keep showing up for other people if you haven't given yourself the energy, the rest, the love that you need. We can't give from an empty cup. It's a bit... almost a bit of a cliche now, but there is relevance in that. We need to be able to give from a place of abundance so that we can keep giving sustainably.

Jenni O’Connor

So important. So important that we're refilling our tank. What advice would you give to those who are working to overcome a difficult past?

Marissa McCallam

I advise those that are working to overcome a difficult past that they are allowed to love themselves. And also, you are not your past. It may inform decisions that you make, it may have influenced you, but that doesn't always have to be negative. And it isn't all that you are. You are so much more than your past. And you're creating a new past in this current moment anyway, so why not make it something that is good for you, that works for you, and is something that you can enjoy? Then, a lot of us spend a lot of time feeling like life has to be a struggle, that it has to be hard. And anything alternative to that, we're not allowed to embrace. But I'm going to challenge people to believe that you are allowed to be happy, you're allowed to feel calm, and it doesn't need to be hard. It doesn't need to be hard. 

Jenni O’Connor

That's so good. Every once in a while I have one of these moments where I just want to sit in that beautiful space that you just created for us. And that... that's such a beautiful space. Because you're right. Especially those of us who are overachievers, we think if we haven't worked hard for it, surely it can't be good enough, you know? We need to have just blood, sweat, and tear-ed, our way through it. (I think I just turned that into a verb for you) [both laugh] To get through this, you know? That if we haven't worked hard, it's not viable, it's not real. And that's something that I've had to learn, you know, to kind of be okay with flow state and be okay with doing the work, and then resting and letting it come to me. 

Marissa McCallam

And I think again, just going back to the whole eldest daughter thing, that's probably a reflection of... you need to work hard and what you've witnessed your parents do, you know. Everything has to be a struggle, everything has to be difficult, you have to work hard for what you get, and you don't get anything in return if you're not constantly giving as well... like everything has to be conditional. That is an unhealthy space to come from because you don't know when to stop. And you don't know when to receive, and you don't know when to rest.

Jenni O’Connor

So what tips would you give people who need to work on showing themselves more love and compassion? 

Marissa McCallam

Stop. [both laugh] Just pause, stop, give yourself a break. And this is something I've had to teach myself over the last few years, is rest is so important. Rest. And if you feel uncomfortable with the concept of doing anything for yourself, just think it gives you even more energy to show up for other people. Let's just flip it around a bit. It doesn't always have to be about you, (stage whisper) but it kind of is about you. Just... yeah. Just give yourself some space and time and what you need. And that is a practice in itself, if you're not used to caring for yourself in a way like that. You're going to have to have a little rehearsal, a little run up to it, but just keep trying, and you'll see the benefits of it.

Jenni O’Connor

Do you have any favorite self care techniques?

Marissa McCallam

My favorite self care techniques usually involve movement of some sort. When I want to get rowdy I'm dancing around my bedroom with my earphones in, just to any cheesy track that has got a thumping baseline. [both laugh] If I want to chill, usually I do a bit of yoga. And that's been quite a recent thing for me. Like I flirted with the idea for a few years. I was like, "I'm not bendy, I'm not doing that." But it's just, again, it's that whole opportunity to connect with your body in a different way. To challenge yourself. And then you get to lie down at the end so, you know. it's like sheduled rest. It's a win-win situation.

Jenni O’Connor

Yes. Savasana's my favorite. Especially at the studio we do aerial yoga, so we're just swaying in the hammocks, and it's the most relaxing thing in the world. So when my students start snoring I take it as a huge compliment. [both laugh] So Marissa our podcast is called Ashes to Wings, referring to the story of the Phoenix transforming and rising from the ashes. I like to ask all of our guests this question: What does rise above mean in your life?

Marissa McCallam

To me rising above means, not getting caught up in lower vibration energy. Not getting caught up in drama, and thriving, despite what you've been through. And also thriving because of what you've been through. Because these things have given you experiences, and things to share with other people, and influence the way that you show up. But if you can use those to your advantage, then that is the most magical thing that you can do in life, basically. Using every single experience as an opportunity to grow, and thrive, and share, and just generally be a human being.

Jenni O’Connor

Marissa, I always like to leave our listeners with a bumper sticker statement, a summary of what you've just talked about that would fit on a bumper sticker. So what would your bumper sticker be?

Marissa McCallam

My bumper sticker would be "Wishing only love." It's a three word mantra, nice and simple. It's all about the intention that you bring to the situation, what you wish for the world, and what we all need to do a little bit more of.

Jenni O’Connor

So perfect... short and sweet. I like it. And I have a few rapid-fire fun questions for you here if you're game? 

Marissa McCallam

Let's do this! I'm ready!

Jenni O’Connor

I love the big smile like... "Yes! Game show!"

Marissa McCallam

It's games... I love games!

Jenni O’Connor

So what is your most treasured possession?

Marissa McCallam

My body. 

Jenni O’Connor

YASSS! I love that. So good. What characteristic are you most known for?

Marissa McCallam

Smiling. 

Jenni O’Connor

Yes, I can concur that is definitely a Marissa thing! And you have such a beautiful smile. 

Marissa McCallam

Aw thanks!

Jenni O’Connor

You're welcome! Who would play you in a movie?

Marissa McCallam

Ooh, let's see, who can we go for? I want someone good. Okay, I'm gonna go... Zoey Saldana for now but I reserve the right to change that at any stage, if a contract comes into play. [both laugh]

Jenni O’Connor

I like it. You have all the contingencies covered. 

Marissa McCallam

Yes. 

Jenni O’Connor

What are your favorite pizza toppings?

Marissa McCallam

Onion, peppers, sweet corn, and tomato. Was I allowed that many? Is that ok?

Jenni O’Connor

Absolutely, as many as you want. Yeah. 

Marissa McCallam

I like the vegs but no olives...

Jenni O’Connor

I don't think I've ever heard of sweet corn on a pizza.

Marissa McCallam

[Gasps] Is that like a British thing? 

Jenni O’Connor

Maybe! 

Marissa McCallam

That's crazy. 

Jenni O’Connor

See, now once we can travel again I'll have to come try it.

Marissa McCallam

It's not like full on cobs on the pizza, but like, little bitty kernals. Not just a giant cob in the center. 

Jenni O’Connor

You have to stop eating your slice to chew on a cob... [both laugh] What book belongs on everyone's bookshelf? 

Marissa McCallam

Okay, this is gonna be... okay yeah. I'm not gonna... I'm not gonna preframe this. My favorite book that I recommend to most people is "Playing Big" by Tara Mohr, and it's all about good girls. How we have to people... how we FEEL like we need to people-please. And she just blew my mind, that she put it all in a book, and it kind of made me realize that I don't need to do that anymore. So "Playing Big" by Tara Mohr is my go-to book, and is just sat on the bookshelf.

Jenni O’Connor

Sounds great.

Marissa McCallam

Awesome... I recommend it. Yes.

Jenni O’Connor

And this is my favorite, and I have a feeling you're gonna like this one too. What is your guilty pleasure song?

Marissa McCallam

[sighs] Oh do I have to choose just one? I feel like this is going to go down in history, but I have to commit. [both laugh]

Jenni O’Connor

We'll hold you to it. 

Marissa McCallam

All right, I'm gonna... I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna be brave. "She Bangs" by Ricky Martin. [both laugh]

Jenni O’Connor

Oh that's so fantastic... 

Marissa McCallam

Don't tell anybody! 

Jenni O’Connor

That is fantastic. I mean you can't NOT dance to that song. 

Marissa McCallam

I know, right?

Jenni O’Connor

Well Marissa, I know you have an offer just for Ashes to Wings listeners... tell us about that.

Marissa McCallam

I'd like to invite your listeners to have a Re-Empower Hour with me. So, a Re-Empower Hour is basically 60 minutes of coaching, where we get really specific on a certain area of your life, and we just work out what your next action is going to be. So for any listeners that reach out to me and quote the name, you know, Ashes to Wings, I will give you 20% off of your Re-Empower Hour with me.

Jenni O’Connor

Beautiful. Oh man, I can think of so many areas that we could touch on. Love it. What a wonderful gift, thank you.

Marissa McCallam

You're welcome.

Jenni O’Connor

You can find the link for that offer along with Marissa's social media links on her guest page on our website. That's at ashestowings.net/Marissa-McCallam. Make sure you give her a follow. Marissa thank you so much for joining us today. This was so much fun!

Marissa McCallam

Thank you for having me, I loved this. Thank you so much, Jenni.

[music bumper]

Jenni O’Connor

It's time for another review shout out. This one's from ZPD Coaching and reads, "Inspirational! Jenni is a fantastic interviewer. Very professional production and thought-provoking conversations." Thank you, ZPD Coaching! Make sure you leave us a rating and review, and you might just hear your review read on the air. 

[music bumper]

Jenni O’Connor

So just to recap our episode, the major points that we touched on were to share the compassion that you have for others with yourself, and that you're allowed to love yourself. So if there's something in your past or something in your present that has led you to believe otherwise, we're here to remind you that you are worthy of love. And again Marissa's bumper sticker was "wishing only love." This fits so nicely with our values at Ashes to Wings, on having love and compassion, both for others and for yourself. I hope you've learned something that helps you feel more able to do that today.

Don't forget to check out Marissa's guest page. Again that's AshestoWings.net/Marissa-McCallam. Friends, thank you for listening. Don't forget to follow the show, rate, and review. See you next time!

Announcer: 

Thanks for listening. The best way to learn is to teach someone else. So take one thing you learned today and share it with a friend. Find Jenni on Instagram at the_Jenni_OConnor and online at JenniOConnor.com. Subscribe for new episodes. Until next time, rise above!