Episode 004: How Moms Can Stress Less - Guest: Danielle Zack

Intro: Welcome to the Ashes to Wings podcast, where we tell stories of overcomers, and give you tips and tricks to living a fuller, more embodied life, here's your host, Jenni O'Connor.

Jenni: 

Hey friends, welcome to Ashes to Wings. Today we'll be talking with Daniel Zack, who is a mommy mentor who supports moms to discover the immense power they hold in their hearts; to connect to the sacred embodiment they are living every day... and to honor the divine role they've chosen to serve here on Earth. She is also the founder of the group Sexy and Sovereign Mommas. Danielle, thank you for joining us today. 

Danielle: 

Thank you for having me today. I'm so excited to be here!

Jenni: 

I'm so excited to talk with you! So Danielle, tell me how you got into mommy mentoring.

Danielle: 

I love Moms. My passion is for moms, and that is not something that I foresaw that I would feel that my calling and my passion was going to be at. When I was young and growing up I always knew I wanted to be a mom, no question about it. I was obsessed with playing with baby dolls. I had all of the things... the cradles, and the strollers, and all of it. So many Cabbage Patch dolls. And as I was growing up, I was always the good girl. I was so into doing things right, making sure that my grades were good, and I was very family-focused. But as I was finishing up high school, I had all these plans for what I was going to do with my life, and the things that I wanted to do. And while I saw motherhood as being one of those things, I did not see myself working with moms. And it wasn't until I was graduating high school, and I found myself pregnant... I found that I was already jumping into motherhood well before I ever anticipated that I would be. 

So my high school sweetheart, who I am married to now, completely swept me off my feet my junior year of high school. Because I was a person that was so focused on everyone else in my home. I was a caretaker for my siblings, always about making sure that the chores were done, the things were done, that everyone had what they needed, because both of my parents worked full-time. My husband was someone who came into my life and who focused on me, and cared about that I had what I needed. And so I was so excited to be moving forward, as we were graduating high school, to accomplish and do the things that I wanted to do. I was looking at becoming a physician's assistant at the time, and making all of these plans, and we were so excited to start the beginnings of our life together... but not anticipating that we’d be starting a family so soon. So my world was rocked when I found out I was pregnant, to say the least. And everything that I had been anticipating and seeing and envisioning for myself was just... pulled out from under me. Like... rug completely pulled out from under me. And I was excited because this man that I love... we're still moving forward with the life that we want. But at the same time, I didn't even know what to expect that life was going to be. I had no idea what to expect. And so unprepared for, you know, motherhood that wasn't just playing with the baby dolls that I played with. But a living, breathing actual human being that I would need to care for.

Jenni: 

Yeah, the diapers aren't as fun when they're not a baby doll. [Both laugh]

Danielle:

No, no, not at all. Oh my gosh. 

Jenni:

So what was the hardest part about being a teen mom? 

Danielle:

The most difficult part of it was, I had no idea what to expect with my life moving forward. I didn't know what things were going to look like. I didn't know if I was capable. It just it felt like a ton of unknowns, and feeling so unsure about whether or not I was going to really be able to be the mom I had always wanted to be.

Jenni: 

I feel like there's so much pressure on moms to live up to some standard for what a mom should look like. There's so little support (without judgment) on how to actually be a mom. And I imagine as someone who... you mentioned you were a caretaker for others even before this, that that has to be an important part of finding your way. And the fact that your husband... it appealed to you that he helped take care of you... I imagine self-care played into that too. 

Danielle:

Absolutely. Isn't that the biggest thing when we become moms? All of the focus is on doing it right and making sure that we have everything right. And we have this tiny baby and all the focus is on them. That self-care really gets swept and pushed aside, and not having that makes us that much more lost. There's all this uncertainty and “Am I doing it right? Is this going well? What do they want? They're crying again... I don't know what they need.” And then on top of it, either just feeling so busy and overwhelmed, or just feeling guilty to choose to take that time for self-care and self-love, that it makes us even more pulled into that jumbled chaotic place that new moms find themselves in. 

Jenni:

Absolutely. So what do you wish you had known as a new mom?

Danielle: 

That is a great question. It's the question I feel like every new mom is like, “Tell me what do you wish you knew? Tell me... I need all of the golden nuggets!” I wish that I knew that the more that I loved myself, and gave myself grace, and was just present with my baby and present with myself... that the more joy, I would feel. The more at peace I would be and the more at peace that my daughter would have been too. Because then she wouldn't have been feeling my anxiousness and [my] wanting to be the perfect mom. 

Jenni: 

Yeah, I think they do pick up on that. I remember when my oldest daughter was tiny, she had colic. And I was so anxious because I couldn't get her to stop crying. And your whole body tenses up, and the baby picks up on that and cries more. And my mother-in-law said, “Let me try for a minute.” And she just sat down with her, and she was more relaxed because she had less skin in the game. That wasn't her baby to try to calm. And so she was able to relax, and then Sabrina relaxed too. It was this lesson of: they're going to pick up on your energy, and if you can relax and calm down, it helps them to calm down, too. So I love that... feeding into yourself so that you can be more present for them. 

Danielle: 

How beautiful is that? That's one thing that grandmothers are so great at. Like you said, the less skin in the game or anyone that has less skin in the game... that objective view and presence in the situation. I feel like we as moms, when we are open to seeing that... and then allowing help too, right? Because sometimes it's this feeling of, “we have to do it right.” So we want to be in control or sometimes just a feeling of, “it's wrong to ask for help.” Right? Because moms, we feel like we can't do it right, no matter what we do. And so there’s this feeling of, “are we going to be judged for asking for help?” But when we do get the help, and we get to see how someone steps into that space, especially if they do hold our baby and calm them down, there's so much for us to get to see and learn in those moments. So what a beautiful moment. Wow, that's so cool.

Jenni:

So along those lines, especially when you're a young mom, I feel like we learn from others around us even more than books. Who was most influential in helping mold you as a mom?

Danielle: 

Great question. I love this. So, for me, my mom. My mom. Absolutely. I think what I love so much about you sharing that story about your mother-in-law is that, that's my mom as well. And after my babies were born, she would hold, and she would just sit and rock them. Which is what she did with me, and both of my siblings as well. She just wouldn’t want to let them go, like... let them sleep, let them relax on her. The amount of presence and love that she always holds. Even now I see her with my niece and my nephews, I have a little nephew and an itty bitty nephew who was just born a few months ago. And even seeing the way that she is with them... it is exactly, exactly the mom that I want to be. Just an embodiment of love and presence. Which is my favorite thing when I feel that I'm in the flow as a mom... meeting a child where they're at. No matter where they're at, just meeting them where they're at, seeing them for who they are, and being there with them. 

Jenni:

That sounds very present and mindful.

Danielle:

Yes, and they can tell. They know. They know when we're present and mindful. 

Jenni:

Oh yeah. And they're really good at demanding your focus, if you're not. [Both laugh]

Danielle: 

Yeah, they’re good reminders to pull us back into the moment. 

Jenni:

Yes, yes. There's so much pressure on moms to do all the things. What advice would you give to moms who feel like they're not living up to that message?

Danielle: 

Well the first thing that pops into my head is that you might be trying to do too many things. And especially too many things at once. It's something that I have really spent a lot of time, and I continue to spend time working on this. I don't like to say “balance,” I like “harmony.” Where we feel that in order to do one thing we have to sacrifice another thing. And [harmony is] the idea that we get to have both and... it doesn't have to be this or that. It's not a dualistic thing at all. It's both and. And it's a matter of seeing how things flow with us and for us. If I could share, this is a huge breakthrough for me in the past couple of months...? 

Jenni: 

Yeah!

Danielle: 

Thank you! Huge breakthrough for me. A few months ago, I realized that I was compartmentalizing all the different areas of my life. We look at the different roles in our lives, as a businesswoman, as a mom, as a daughter, as a friend, as a wife. All these different areas that we have this underlying subconscious notion that we need to show up as a certain something. In each of these areas we need to besomething, we need to do. It's almost a way of feeling that we need to prove ourselves because that's how we measure whether we're being successful or not. So we can feel like, “If I don't show up, and I don't do all these things for work, then I'm failing there. But then also if I don't show up and do all these things for my kids, I'm failing there. And then my friend keeps calling me, and I feel like I'm failing there.” So we feel pulled apart, really pulled apart. And then we realize that we get to be the same person when we show up in all of these places, and that when we show up somewhere, it doesn't mean that we're taking from another area of our life. So if I show up fully present as a mom that doesn't mean I'm not being a great friend, or a great wife. We get to be one cohesive, harmonic, sole, individual person. And we get to show up as this completely whole version of ourselves all the time and every moment.

Jenni:

It's such a beautiful image versus... I tend to think of it as wearing different hats. I have my boss hat on, I have my mom hat on, I have my coach hat on. It's such a beautiful idea that we're fully present and fully authentic in all of those roles, and they work together in synergy. I love that visual.

Danielle: 

Synergy! Yes that’s a perfect word. 

Jenni: 

Yes! Are there any tips that you have for making mom life easier? 

Danielle: 

YES!!! [Both laugh]. 

Jenni: 

We always like our practical tips.

Danielle: 

It’s always like,“What can I do? Tell me, what can I do?!” My practical tip is to be curious, which might seem really off the wall. “What in the world is that?!” And when we are curious, we are open. We're playful, and we're allowing for flow, we're allowing for movement when we're curious. So even when something is coming up, and we're just like, “Oh my gosh!” and we go right into restrictive mode. Sometimes it's okay to be like, “So what does this mean? Why is this coming up? What does this mean?” or we're curious about it. “Okay, so this is here... so what do I get to do now?” Or the biggest thing (and because I have teenage girls) being curious with my children, especially when I feel like I don't understand what's going on. Instead of being in my own frustrated space of “What is going on?” or “What do you mean?” or “Why do you think that?” Actually being honestly curious and open to, “Okay, so how are you feeling? So, what do you mean by that?” like “What is actually happening?” And just being in that curiosity, we're always present. So that seems to be the theme of this conversation, which I absolutely love. Curiosity brings us back to the present moment, and it allows us to move. It allows us to be open versus being constricted. So that would be my biggest piece of advice, is to remain curious.

Jenni: 

I feel like it goes into that flow state, and kind of that “relaxing into the flow.” And things are going to go a little bit easier than if you're forcing everything and you're frustrated. I know one of the things that I work with in Somatics is sort of the visceral response in the body when you hear “no, but” versus “yes, and.” And anybody who's done improv has done the “yes and” game. But it speaks to that openness and curiosity for, “Let's work together on something.” And being open to, “It may not look exactly how I thought it was gonna look.” And anybody who's raising kids knows that feeling. When you bring this tiny baby home you have all these plans and then they grow into their own person and sometimes you're going, “How did you come from me, because I don’t see any connections.” and other times you're like, “Okay, yeah, that's me. That's mini me right there. Do I sound like that?” I love that approach... just that openness to and curiosity for who your children are as individuals... as people. Why they believe that the way that they do, why they think the way that they do. And I think that's something, too, that not all of us had growing up. It was a different generation, you know, but it was more like, “This is how our family believes. Here’s this.” There was less room for, “What do you believe?” or “How do you think? How do you see this?” So I love that you take that tack, of wanting to see where your daughters are coming from. 

Danielle: 

Yes, and we learn so much when we do. Whether we’re asking a three year old... being curious about what is happening with them, or a 17 year old, like I have. We learn so much. That's where the unexpected comes from too, and some really beautiful, fantastic things. 

Jenni:
Absolutely. Children especially have so much wisdom, and it's at such a basic level, but there are so many times that a child will say something and you're like, “Oh. It's so simple!” But it hits at your core. I feel like kids have way more insight than we sometimes give them credit for. 

Danielle: 

Absolutely. I 100% agree.

Jenni:

So I work in Somatics which is connecting the body and the emotions. How did truly feeling your feelings in the moment impact you?

Danielle:

Mmm. Yes, I feel like this is such a theme of our conversation today: feeling your feelings in the moment, being so present. And when we open ourselves up to feeling our feelings in the moment, especially without judgment, we are really giving ourselves permission to move with grace and flow. Versus being restricted with expectation, which is really the opposite of curiosity. Right? Either we're open and curious or we have expectations of how this is going to turn out. And so that's where the restriction comes from.” 

Jenni:

I want to pause there because that's a mic drop moment. “Curiosity is the opposite of expectation.” I just wanted to call that out for a second because that was... that was beautiful. I love that. 

Danielle: 

Yeah, I do too. 

Jenni: 

I need that on a t-shirt.

Danielle: 

Well maybe I can do that... I'll see if I can work that out. [Both laugh]. Curiosity is the opposite of expectation. You can feel it... talking about somatics... you feel it in the body. Because when we have expectations, that's when viscerally we tighten up and we're like, “This isn't how it's supposed to be.” And “I don't want it to be this way... I don't want to feel this way.” We're restrictive and constricted versus that curiosity. And there's no judgment in that [curiosity]. And it's open, and even if it's one tiny step at a time we get to start moving through it. 

Jenni: 

I would think having a baby so young, it would kind of knock you off your course a little bit. Does that ring true?

Danielle: 

Oh my gosh, it knocked me into a completely different course, completely different course. Yes. But honestly, it's the unforeseen, knock-you-off-your-course moments in life that really lead us directly into our greatest joy and our greatest purpose in life.

Jenni:

Wow, that's so true. It's so true. And again, the curiosity and expectation. It's the unexpected moments... those are the ones that really stand out and change our lives forever. 

Danielle: 

They do. And for me, that was becoming a mom, and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing now and working with moms. If it wasn't for that completely being yanked, knocked off my course, and put into a completely different one... I don't think I would have fully connected with my purpose, the way that I have.

Jenni: 

I love how we have all these plans and goals and think our life is gonna go one way. And then all of a sudden the calling drops in. And you're like, “Oh, this is where I'm going. It's completely different, and not at all what I expected.” But I feel like (and maybe this resonates with you, too) all of the things that we go through in life, all the things that we experience, are setting us up for our calling... for how we can help other humans through life. 

Danielle: 

Yeah. Oh my gosh, yes, that is like the mantra of my life. [Both laugh] All of these things arehappening, everything has happened, everything that's going to continue to happen... to bring me to where I need to be... to give me all the experiences that I need to have to give out and serve. I believe that is so true for each of us. It is the beauty of being human. And the fact that we get to experience... to be fully present and in service to each other. 

Jenni: 

Yes! Well, talk to me more about your high school sweetheart. Because I know a large part of being a sexy and sovereign momma is your relationship with your partner, if you have a partner. So talk to me about your relationship. 

Danielle:

Yeah! Alright. So my high school sweetheart and I have been together for 19 years, and of those 19 years we've been parents for 17 of them. And what is so beautiful about our journey is that we were thrust into parenthood. And then also learning what it meant to be husband and wife and have a relationship, and figure out who we are and become an adult all at once. So it's like we were just thrown in. And it was like, “Okay now we get to do all of the things.” That's such a vulnerable place to be in. It allowed us to be really curious. And not realizing that we were, but just to say, “okay there's so much that we don't know.” So instead of feeling like we should know these things. Whenever anything happens in our life, if we feel like we don't know what to do, or we don't feel capable but we should, we have all this resistance to it versus we were like, “Okay well this is where we're at, and this is what we're doing, so we're just gonna do it. We're just gonna figure it out.” And so all three of us, me and my husband Eric, and my oldest daughter Ava, started this journey together where we were all growing together. And what that allowed for us is to form a really deep bond, and also have so much grace with each other. Versus sometimes it's like, “Well you're not showing up this way” and “This isn't how I want it.” Instead it was a very much a, “We're doing this collectively as a unit, and we're going to work together, and figure all of these things out together.”

Jenni: 

I'd love to hear more about your Sexy and Sovereign Mommas, because you're a coach through this. What does it mean to be a Sexy and Sovereign Momma?

Danielle:

Yes. So short answer, it means to be fully embodied and in love with yourself.

So the sexy part is pretty obvious there, right? But that's not just on a physical level. That is on such a deep, internal level as well. And that's where the sovereignty comes in, too. Which is that we are whole, free, powerful beings who innately have everything that we need to live this life, and to live it to its fullest, as our best selves. And so, connecting with our sexy in our sovereignty is being inthis... being human. Loving ourselves for the things that we feel are fantastic, and the other places that we are still growing. And trusting ourselves... which trust as a woman and as a mom is sometimes (at least for me, on my journey) that's one of the biggest hurdles, is to really trust ourselves. 

Jenni:

Absolutely. I think it's something that, as moms, we grow into: trusting our judgment, trusting our decisions and our choices, and how we're parenting. I love everything about that. I love that the answers come from within. Which, as coaches, we know that when we're working with people, their answers come from within and we just help them discover them. And I love loving your body, and that the sexy isn't just about the physical. It’s everything about you and the way that you carry yourself. Love that. 

Danielle: Me too! Me too!

Jenni:

Me too! So Danielle, our podcast is called Ashes to Wings, referring to the story of the Phoenix, transforming and rising from the ashes. I like to ask all of our guests this question: What does rise above mean in your life?

Danielle:

Mmm. Phoenix. So rising above means, in my life, always being willing and always looking for the beauty that comes from every single moment, no matter what that moment brings.

Jenni:
Danielle I always like to leave our listeners with a bumper sticker statement. So a summary of what you've just said that would fit on a bumper sticker. 

Danielle: 

To sum up all of the goodness we talked about (and I hope someone does put this on their bumper sticker)... [Both laugh]

Our freedom is equal to the level of grace that we give ourselves in every moment.

Jenni:

Mmm. That's so good. That's so good. “Our freedom is equal to the level of grace we give ourselves in every moment.” I almost want to just let that one sit. That's beautiful. 

I have a few rapid-fire fun questions for you if you're game... a little get to know you. 

Danielle: 

Okay!

Jenni:

What is your favorite word? 

Danielle: 

Wow. Sovereignty. 

Jenni: 

Ooh yes, and so good because it ties into your coaching title. Who would play you in a movie?

Danielle: 

Gwyneth Paltrow. I'm told I look a lot like her. 

Jenni: 

I can see that for sure. Yes, and sort of that beautiful, Zen aura. I love that. What is your superpower?

Danielle:

My superpower is understanding other people... connecting and understanding.

Jenni: 

Love that. What book belongs on everyone's bookshelf?

Danielle: 

Hmm. That is... ugh. Okay...

Jenni:

It’s tough to choose just one, right? 

Danielle:

I know!

Jenni:

I’m such a book addict.

Danielle: 

I'm like looking around because... I love books. I am currently reading a book that is fantastic called “White Hot Truth” by Danielle Laporte, and I absolutely love it. And so I'm going to say that one because I'm just in love with it at the moment.

Jenni: 

What are your favorite pizza toppings?

Danielle: 

Veggies... so peppers and onions, and not olives. But peppers, onions, tomatoes... 

Jenni: 

I can’t do olives pizza either.

Danielle: 

I’m glad it’s not just me. [both laugh]

Jenni:

Awesome. And then my favorite: What is your guilty pleasure song? Like you're riding in the car, volume up, singing at the top of your lungs... 

Danielle: 

So the first thing that popped in my head is when my girls and I go to the beach, because in the summer we go to Lake Michigan all the time. And so we always open the sunroof and the windows, and we put on Starships by Nicki Minaj. Because she says “Let's go to the beach, beach, let's go to the waves.” So, yes. [Both laugh]

Jenni:

Great visual! I love that so much. Yes. Summer.... summer is almost here! Well Danielle, I know you have a great Facebook community our listeners can join. Tell us about that. 

Danielle: 

Absolutely. So on Facebook, we have the Confident Sexy Mom community. And as moms, community is so important. To know that we're in this together. And so the Confident Sexy Mom community is just all about providing that space and that container of support for one another in such a loving, non-judgmental way. Which is something that, as moms, we struggle with that mommy guilt and judgment and all of that. And in there, it's us supporting each other, as well as content that's supporting us day-to-day. And I hop in there with lives. So we would love for you to join us in there... all of the the sexy and sovereign moms in there. Come join us. 

Jenni: 

I feel like it's such a rare thing nowadays to find a women's group that is that non-judgmental, safe container. I know at my studio, I fight so hard to protect that energy, because there are so few places that we get that, as women. So I love that you have a space like this for women to feel like they can get advice and not have that layer of judgment there.

And you can find the link for that group along with Danielle's social media links on her guest page on our website. That's at AshesToWings.net/Danielle-Zack. So make sure you give her a follow on all of her social media. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us today. This was so wonderful! 

Danielle: 

Thank you for having me! This was fantastic... I loved this conversation so much. Thank you. 

Jenni: 

Thank you. So just to recap our episode and some of the amazing takeaway points that Danielle had for us today: 

1. The unforeseen, knock-you-off-your-course moments in life are usually the moments that are leading us directly into our greatest purpose and our greatest joy. Most of us get hit with these things and blindsided. And if you can sit in that moment, and recognize that it's probably going to take you to something even greater... I think that brings you peace and gets you into that flow state. 

2. Then she also talked about how when we open ourselves up to feel our feelings in each moment, without judgment, we give ourselves permission to flow with grace versus restricting ourselves with expectation. And we talked about how curiosity is the opposite of expectation, and how we need to be open and curious... again so we can move into that flow state, and just feel like things are moving, and we don't have to force everything. 

3. And then her bumper sticker statement was “Our freedom is equal to the level of grace we give ourselves in every moment.”

So moms I hope you enjoyed this episode. It was so powerful and it fits so nicely with our values at Ashes to Wings... that we can all use more spaces with less judgment and more grace, and that if we can be open and curious, we're going to be in such a better place in our lives. Don't forget to check out Danielle's guest page, again that's AshesToWings.net/Danielle-Zack. Friends, thank you for listening. Don't forget to follow the show, rate, and review, and we'll see you next time!

Outro: Thanks for listening. The best way to learn is to teach someone else. So take one thing you learned today and share it with a friend. Find Jenni on Instagram at the_Jenni_O'Connor and online at JenniOConnor.com. Subscribe for new episodes. Until next time, rise above!